it’s funny when someone calls internet fair and free

I was clearly calling it free and fair with respect to Open Web vision. It’s funny how a tech enthusiast like you can’t grasp the larger picture.

Why did EU agree when Microsoft removed Media player from Windows for EU countries? What’s the problem with removing now?

When EU asked MS to remove WMP, they simply released a new version without WMP and continued selling the one with WMP. So, obviously there weren’t many takers for WMP.

I have already explained why this is just a clever ploy and wont solve the problem. You can also read the Channel Register article. Go through it and I am sure you would know why.
MS has abused its position in the past and there isnt any reason to believe it wont again (look at what it did with Alan Wake yesterday).

However, those stats collected only from a single website (W3schools). Obviously data from a single website isn’t a very good indicator of web trends.

You repeatedly seem to ignore the real concern. In so many tweets and so many replies you havent addressed the real issue. Instead you have harped on MS’s right to include a browser of their choice. Yes, it is their right. But ensuring a Open Web is more important.

And by support MS’s move (calling is a brilliant move) you are supporting the Monopoly who is misusing its position to deter free competition.
Whats more surprising is that by terming MS’ cheap move to win popular opinion you are siding with corporate politics.

Anyway, you are yet to explain why you believe Opera’s claim (supported by Mozilla, Google, Nokia, Sun, Adobe etc) that MS is hurting open web is wrong. in fact you haven’t even touched the core concerns raised by Opera in the antitrust complaint. Nor have you replied to the points I made in this blogpost or the issues raised by Channel register article.
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If you look back, all I said was I fully support Microsoft’s move to unbundle IE from OS.
“@indyan I love what Microsoft did! Brilliant move. Opera should make a better browser instead of crying and whining to EU!”

We’ve come a full circle and hopefully this argument will end here.Now if you still have any problem with that tweet, then probably there is REALLY no point in discussing this anymore.

Microsoft has a right to include a browser of their choice in the OS. But that right ceases to exist when it combined with their monopolistic presence somehow hinders open and free competition.

Thats the point I have been trying to get across.

And statcounter corroborates this.
July 1, 08 : 1.46%
July 1, 09 : 2.58%

So why do you think people like these deserve a Firefox or Opera or a W3C standard compliant browser?</blockquote?
Read everything I have written so far. I have already explained why standards is important twice. Its because it IE doesnt stick to standards it makes it difficult for other browsers because then differents websites appear different in different browsers. Since IE is the dominant browser naturally webdevs would make their website IE compatible at the cost of having it break on other browsers.

Yes, MS does have a right to bundle a browser with their OS. But that right is breaking the open web (as already explained several time by me).

And MS removing IE is just another clever ploy by MS to win public opinion.

But if, lets say, Microsoft started actively making it a problem to get or use other browsers, then the EU would have a valid point. I’m sure microsoft is very aware that IE is being replaced so they are doing what they can to try and keep their hold. Commercials, advertisements online, studies, etc. If Microsoft is willing to fight for their browser, the other browsers need to do so too.

So why do you think people like these deserve a Firefox or Opera or a W3C standard compliant browser? Man, I would like to stop here. I am not supporting IE or Microsoft here. All I am saying is they are free to bundle their software in their OS. What’s more stupid and irritating is the fact EU and Opera is pissed off because Microsoft decided to remove IE from their OS. They knew it would end up messy right from day 1 and still went ahead with their coercion.

Okay let me explain with some numbers from
http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp

Dec 08 Opera’s market share 2.4%
June 09 Opera’s market share 2.1%

That’s little less than 8.5% decrease in market share. Also, you do understand the fact that losing potential user base to news browsers that popped up yesterday = losing market share, right?

Everyone except Microsoft haters know that this was pretty stupid move on EU’s part forcing Microsoft on IE. All OS should be bundled with a browser, media player and all other essential utilities.Now who decides what goes into an OS? Microsoft for Windows, Apple for Leopard, Mark Shuttleworth for Ubuntu etc.

I am not a Microsoft hater. In fact my stand was identical to yours originally. And I still believe forcing MS to unbundle Windows Media player was stupid. But, I started supporting this antitrust complaint after analysing what the actual problem is.

I have already mentioned this, and I would mention it again. Don’t know if I can get my point accross to you. Anyway, the root of all problems is that IE isnt complying to standards. And since IE is the major browser, webdevelopers test their websites in IE. This often means these websites simply won’t work on other browsers. Thus Micrsofot Internet Explorer is actually preventing the web from being truely open in nature and making is tough for other browsers. Naturally people would be inclined to use the browser on which all websites work. If the market was open and fair EU wouldnt need to take this step and there wouldn’t have been an antitrust complaint.

All these web standards, monopolist talk are bullshit. At the end of the day, all an average Joe needs is a browser that gets his job done.

If you fail to see the importance of web standards then there is simply no point to this discussion. Your comment just shows that you aren’t considering this from the larger perspective. The end user doesn’t immediately suffer. But, if monopoly creates hinders to competition the at the end of the day the user would suffer as the quality of product would stagnate.

Btw, this antitrust has already had an positive effect. initially IE 8 was supposed to use the old rendering engine as the default one to ensure it doesnt break websites. After the antitrust complaint MS changed their minds and made the newer (more standard compliant) engine the default.

Now how difficult is to download another browser using IE? Now don’t say users are not aware of alternatives.

Forget about being aware of alternative browsers, there are a lot of people who don’t know what a browser is. I have seen such people in my college (yes, in an engineering college).

See this video.

Microsoft did not become a monopoly overnight. It became a monopoly because it was allowed to become one by lazy competitors or lack of good competing products.

MS IE became dominant browser riding on the back of Windows. And yeah, the fact that by that time Netscape had become badly bloated also helped.

The main problem arises when a monopoly by the virtue of their dominant position does something that hinders competition.

Opera should stop complaining and start focusing on making a top class product. Their current browser is good but sadly not the best. They were the best but allowed browsers like Firefox,Chrome and Safari to eat into their market share.

This is something you just made up. Fx, Chrome and Safari didn’t eat away Opera’s marketshare. It’s currently larger than what it was 2-3 years ago.
In fact when Chrome was released Fx and Ie’s market share went down where as Opera’s remained constant (infact according to Statcounter it actually increased).

Again this is not about which browser is the best. This is not about “Ie works”. It is about the fact that IE is hindering free and fair competition by not adhering to standards.